[geeky info!] ECU program/map differences (updated 20/08/05)

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[geeky info!] ECU program/map differences (updated 20/08/05)

Postby sailorbob on Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:32 pm

[Original title: DEWY vs DEEP differences]

There 20 bytes (plus the checksum) of difference between the DEEP ecu and DEWY ecu in 47671 bytes of code and data.

MAF, spark and fuel tables are identical.

Different items I believe I have identified are:

MAF_MIN_AD_COUNT, 1.09375 volts for DEWY and 0.96875 volts for DEEP
AIRCON_OFF_DELAY,
AIRCON_LS_FAN_SET_MPH,
LS_FAN_CLEAR_MPH,
LS_FAN_DELAY_TIME,
AIRCON_FAN_DISENGAGE_TIME,
a value that is checked against AIRCON_REQUEST_TIMER
Last edited by sailorbob on Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Smo on Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:37 pm

So do you know whether it has any relevence?

Was it just a fixed bug, more efficient code or is there some real gain in some form or another to how the engine performs?

Also, have you looked at DESK at all? I think someone mentioned that it's meant to be more of a performance ECU, used in the 2.0 Si... May be wrong there...
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Postby sailorbob on Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:45 pm

Dead line
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Postby Captain Tightpants on Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:58 pm

I have a DESK one sat here on my bench. Want to rip the code out?

Steve
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Postby sailorbob on Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:11 am

Cheers Steve, yes I would. I'll pay for the postage if you'd like to send it to me and I'll return it with a copy of the bin I extract, pm me for my details.
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Postby Smo on Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:45 am

I've got a question. Say you did pull the code from one ECU, is it possible to write that back into another ECU (assuming the ECU hardware is identical in everyway)?

So if the two ECUs were identical, to then basically write the code from a Mondeo 2.0 ECU, such as DEEP, to a Fiesta 1.6 Si ECU?
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Postby sailorbob on Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:15 am

If the eec-iv hardware was identical you could run the code from one ecu on another, some Mustang owners do this using the EEC-tuner and Tweecer devices. There's been a long held conception amongst the eec amateur tuners/hackers that a lot of eec's are the same and Ford program them to suit the application. You really have to use a J3 chip adapter (eg http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=25_35 ) to hold the code though as the eec-iv uses a custom eprom that is hard to crack (this guy's mades some excellant progress though http://www.detomaso.nu/~thomast/eec-programmer/ ).
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Postby Smo on Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:49 am

sailorbob wrote:If the eec-iv hardware was identical you could run the code from one ecu on another, some Mustang owners do this using the EEC-tuner and Tweecer devices. There's been a long help conception amongst the eec amateur tuners/hackers that a lot of eec's are the same and Ford program them to suit the application. You really have to use a J3 chip adapter (eg http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=25_35 ) to hold the code though as the eec-iv uses a custom eprom that is hard to crack (this guy's mades some excellant progress though http://www.detomaso.nu/~thomast/eec-programmer/ ).

This is really interesting stuff :D Well, to me anyway :lol:

I'd be really interested in looking at the code for a few ECUs, such as the XR2i 16v and any of the common Mondeo 2.0 ones, such as DEEP or DEWY. Is this available anywhere or is that just a totally stupid question to ask? :lol:

Probably got more questions, but will leave it there for a bit...
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Postby Ollybee on Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:51 am

I really must learn more about this subject. :rolleyes:
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Postby sailorbob on Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:21 pm

I started off by reading this http://www.fordfans.cz/download/manual/eectch98.pdf and if it keeps you interested then I found looking at (and trying to understand) a disassembly of an A9L ecu from a Mustang was next. This disassembly, and a couple of others, can be found at http://www.austin.cc.tx.us/cloud/efi/list.zip

Quite a few binaries are here http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EEC ... 0Binaries/ and http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/twe ... 0Binaries/ (you'll need to join the groups) or http://www.moates.net/fileman/index.php?dir=1)%20Stock%20Binaries/Ford%20Binaries
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Postby Ollybee on Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:43 pm

Nice one, I'll give them a go, cheers.
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Postby Smo on Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:09 pm

There's some good stuff there :)

Ok... Don't know if this is another stupid question, and apologies if I've totally missed the answer directly in one of those links, but how have those disassemblies been created? Have they been disassembled/decompiled/reversed (whatever you want to call it) from the binaries? I'm guessing yes?

And the sample code available on a couple of those sites... I'm guessing that's not the original code that's been sourced, but sample code that has been put together from a binary or disassembly?

Sorry if I'm kind of pulling this off topic as I'm not sure if this is really what the topic is about now :lol:
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Postby sailorbob on Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:09 pm

The codes have been disassembled from the binary file extracted fom the ecu, see http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EEC ... r%20tools/ for the tools most people use. I don't know of any original source code out there and I'd be surprised to see it as Ford guard that kind of stuff very carefully (I suspect that the likes of Superchips have had access to some priviledged info though. There's a lot a hard work gone into those disassemblies and quite a bit of guesswork. If you rumage around the various files on the Yahoo groups you will find some interesting stuff.
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Postby FezzR on Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:01 pm

if anyone is looking at this thinking it is really interesting and want to start playing with it as Derek is then you will be amazed by the amount of information you dont and will need to know before you can even dream of working on your own ECU im not trying to put anyone off. i looked at this for a couple of months and am about to start looking again but it just take so much time and understand. (and this is with an IT and Motor vehicle background)
RESPECT to Derek (ill probably be asking lots of question in a couple of weeks :wink: )
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Postby Project on Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:16 pm

Yeah, but... Fezzr, you're thick, so you don't count :P :lol:

... sorry, I'll get me coat :oops: :D
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Postby sailorbob on Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:50 pm

Looking at the components on the circuit boards of DEEP, DEWY and DESK ecus, they seem to be very similar. Component count seems to be the same, as do the circuit tracks. Differences seem to consist of things like the timing crystals have different size cans and some of the small ic’s have different numbers. When I get eventually my J3 adapter card up and running I’ll try running DEWY code on a DEEP ecu and see if the engine runs OK.
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Postby FezzR on Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:26 pm

Project wrote:Yeah, but... Fezzr, you're thick, so you don't count :P :lol:

... sorry, I'll get me coat :oops: :D

you do better smart ass :oops:
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DEWY, DEEP and now DESK

Postby sailorbob on Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:36 am

Started to look at a DESK ecu recently (thanks Scort), MAFs are the same but the main spark tables are slightly different. The DESK ecu runs a little less advance at low load/high rpm sites, cannot imagine this makes a lot of difference to power as you aren't likely to be running 10% load at 5000rpm!

The OL_STABILISED_FUEL_TABLE is same for DEWY, DEEP and DESK ecu's too.


EDIT:the mis-spelling of stabilised finally got to me!
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Postby sailorbob on Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:30 am

First post amended 12/08/05.
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Postby sailorbob on Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:23 pm

Chipped a DEWY (2.0l) ecu and then a ACHE (1.8l) ecu today with a DEEP ecu code and put them into a DEEP Mondeo today and ran a code check, both seemed to run OK (they came back with EGR DPFE and HEGO lean errors which were already present on the DEEP ecu). As the component count on the ecu boards appears to be the same I think the physical differences are minimal and the ecu's differ in primarily code and not the hardware.
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Re: [geeky info!] ECU program/map differences (updated 20/08

Postby Captain Tightpants on Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:07 am

sailorbob wrote:MAF_MIN_AD_COUNT, 1.09375 volts for DEWY and 0.96875 volts for DEEP


So a MAF from a DEWY is incompatible with DEEP then?

Most interesting.

Steve
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Postby sailorbob on Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:03 am

I think the DEWY and DEEP MAF's are the same, Ford just tweaked the code a bit.
DEEP MAF part no. = 93BB-12B579-BA
I think I know where to find a DEWY MAF, I'll see if the part numbers are the same.
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Postby Rhinopower on Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:01 pm

when i queried different maf's with ford the other day a 130ps maf's are all the same
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Postby mike_wall15 on Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:23 pm

sailorbob wrote:I think the DEWY and DEEP MAF's are the same, Ford just tweaked the code a bit.
DEEP MAF part no. = 93BB-12B579-BA
I think I know where to find a DEWY MAF, I'll see if the part numbers are the same.


Wow, I didn't realise how interesting this topic had got.

That DEEP MAF code matches with mine, and I also run a DEEP ECU so it looks like I'm ok, maybe this explains why some people (namely Percy!) can't get a MAF and ECU from the 2.0L to work together?

:)
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Re: [geeky info!] ECU program/map differences (updated 20/08

Postby rowdyburns on Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:39 pm

Scort wrote:
sailorbob wrote:MAF_MIN_AD_COUNT, 1.09375 volts for DEWY and 0.96875 volts for DEEP


So a MAF from a DEWY is incompatible with DEEP then?

Most interesting.

Steve


I would imagine that the MAF runs a 0-5volt output and this is just some minimum figure that something can be added or adjusted. Maybe the min voltage it needs to see to run open loop or something. Only seems like a minor tweek by the ford ECU peeps.
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Re: [geeky info!] ECU program/map differences (updated 20/08

Postby FezzR on Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:48 pm

rowdyburns wrote:
Scort wrote:
sailorbob wrote:MAF_MIN_AD_COUNT, 1.09375 volts for DEWY and 0.96875 volts for DEEP


So a MAF from a DEWY is incompatible with DEEP then?

Most interesting.

Steve


I would imagine that the MAF runs a 0-5volt output and this is just some minimum figure that something can be added or adjusted. Maybe the min voltage it needs to see to run open loop or something. Only seems like a minor tweek by the ford ECU peeps.
Different MAF have different key values and scaling, because some obviously handle different volumes.
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Postby VUK on Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:16 am

that would explain why focus manifold conversion is not running right on my car as the maf sends wrong reading to DEWY ecu i got!
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Postby mikeysabes on Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:13 am

Right,


so, what ECU do i mainly want for my conversion ?
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Postby sailorbob on Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:21 am

DEEP, DEWY or DESK are all OK to use :)
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Postby Simon84uk on Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:41 pm

Just reading back on this post,

If you haven't already got a 16v 2i ecu i got one lying about. Its a 2FDC and i also have the RS1800 2FCD one aswell (currently in car) but could meet so you can use it temporarily.

I got xr2i and rs1800 maf's and tps's if they help. Also got a 2.0 maf sensor only but i don't know the code.

Could i run the rs1800 ecu, maf, etc with a 2.0 series 2 mondeo engine? or should i be looking into DEEP ecu's etc. Only prob im worried about is the PATS as i dont have that in my car.


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Postby Smo on Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:47 am

Simon84uk wrote:Just reading back on this post,

If you haven't already got a 16v 2i ecu i got one lying about. Its a 2FDC and i also have the RS1800 2FCD one aswell (currently in car) but could meet so you can use it temporarily.

I got xr2i and rs1800 maf's and tps's if they help. Also got a 2.0 maf sensor only but i don't know the code.

Could i run the rs1800 ecu, maf, etc with a 2.0 series 2 mondeo engine? or should i be looking into DEEP ecu's etc. Only prob im worried about is the PATS as i dont have that in my car.


Simon.

Just so you know, the ECUs are the other way around :) i.e., 2FCD is XR2i 105PS and 2FDC is RS1800 130PS.

Your best bet will be to run the correct stuff, such as a DEEP, DESK or DEWY ECU with a 2.0 MAF sensor if you're running a 2.0 Mondeo engine. You'll need an internal EDIS engine loom for running any of those three ECUs though, as used by the 1.6 16v, and later (MK3.5) RS1800s.
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Postby Simon84uk on Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:25 am

Yeah just had a look at the one in my room and you're right, i got the 2FDC in the car.

Do you reckon it would run temporarily? until i can find a loom? or should i hold off until i can get one?

My orginal plan was to run the rs1800 components with the 2.0 injectors to even it out. I dont know if this is incompatable?

I will be changing the ECU anyway when i do the cams in summer, so i was hopinf this would last til then.


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Postby sailorbob on Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:38 pm

You can use an external EDIS loom with an internal EDIS ecu, you need to swap a few pins around in the ecu's loom connector. There's some posts by JACK THE LAD listing what needs to be done.
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Postby sailorbob on Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:39 pm

You can use an external EDIS loom with an internal EDIS ecu, you need to do a little re-wiring. There's some posts by JACK THE LAD listing what needs to be done for XR2i's.
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Re: [geeky info!] ECU program/map differences (updated 20/08/05)

Postby antonio31 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:24 am

Hello,

I have a problem and maybe can you help me. I have an Escort mk6 with an 2.0 16v zetec silvertop engine, with DEEP code Ecu. I have an aftermarket exhaust manifold ( stainless steel ) and the egr sistem was remove from the engine, the inlet holes were filled and i connect only the sensors ( Egr solenoid and Dpfe sensor ). I made the test and i have the following error: 332 (R,M) EGR did not open/respond during test or if memory code, did not open intermittantly.
Sometimes when I press the clutch the engine dies and doesn't work fine (doesn't go round).

Has anyone know if the Desk or Dewy code Ecu's has this egr sistem? (or if there is another 2.0 ecu without pats, internal edis, manual transmision without the egr sistem)

Or if you know how can i hack the ecu to think that the egr sistem works fine.

Thanks a lot,

Antonio
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