1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

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1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:53 pm

basicly im fitting the 1.8 zetec to my mk4 1.3 endura, the wiring is very confusing no thanks tot he inbay fuse box, anyone know of someone who has done this conversion before or knows enough about looms to help with explaining how to get the mk3 1.6 si loom into the car??

will upload pics in a bit of the fuse box and ecu
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonboisescort on Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:12 pm

theres two options

1 get a haynes manual for a mk4 fiesta if you havant already got one and read the wiring diagrams to find what wires do what

if you have a haynes scan the wiring diagrams so i can have a look for you

you using a si loom???


2 make a separate loom which requires two relays and 3 fuses
this is what i did in the escort
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby MB7201 on Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:21 pm

If you want to use your loom then find out where the pump relay and ignition relay is and locate the fuses. Ive just looked it up and all the ecu feeds you need to get to are in the engine bay fuse box, so I suggest you use those. The next issue is finding the other stuff like rev gauge, temporature, oil pressure feeds etc.

I would figure out where you are going to put the ecu on the car first and look how the loom fits in relation.
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:11 am

thanks for the replies guys

jon could you go into the 2 relays and fuses method please?

yes i have the si loom

and i have a mk3 manual but im trying to get hold of a mk4 one

some pics of what i removed today

start to finish
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the thick black casing you see behind the turret goes to the headlights etc
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starter motor
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JEER ecu
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Last edited by jonyb4 on Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:14 am

might put the ecu behind the passenger air bag panel, id otn have an air bag there, theres a space big enough for the ecu if i secure it
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:34 pm

ok a pic of the wiring diagram, it should be readable if want me to email it you you in a higher res

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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby dangerousdave on Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:21 am

when we put the rst engine in my mates mk4 we used the fiesta ecu and loom and where the bulkhead connector is wired it up as followed....

Image

obviously see how your pins go but you could do something simlar! :)
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby MB7201 on Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:41 am

How easy can you access the bottom of the relays and fuses? You just need to locate the wires on the si loom and connect them as the diagram says.

Relevent Wires to locate (Si multiplug pin no):

Earth (1)
Rev counter (2)
Pump on (3)
Coil middle live (4)
Lambda live (5)
Ecu live (6)
Common sensor live (8)
Temp gauge (9)
Pump on signal (not on loom)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/ ... titled.jpg

All you need to do is put these feeds onto the correct side of the fuses/relays.
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:40 am

this is really over my head

thanks for input again guys, me and a mate have decided yours is best idea MB ( btw my last name is also bennett :P )

the fuse box is up out of its place and i can try to get to the wiring beneth it to see the relay pins

but when you have in the diagram a line eg -3-

what do i need to do with them exsactly? you will have to be gentle as im easily confused with this

just bridge that relevent wire and connect to the pin on the si plug you have specified?

and things like earth and rev counter, do i just run a wire to my rev counter, or my rev counter signal (heater frequency bk/wh wire) and earth just use a earth point?

and how do you mean by the correct side of the relays?

oh will this all run on the mk4 ecu and si loom with 1.8 as a pair?

very muchly appreciated all of you

Jon
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby dangerousdave on Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:04 am

you cant run with the 1.4 ecu mate you prob want the rs1800 ecu :) not sure if its external edis tho :) but that pinout i shown you would be the easyest way to do it you just need wire and the 2 relays and spade connectors! :)
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:17 pm

its a 1.3 ;)

and no i got the 1.8 ecu off the escort the engine come out off
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby MB7201 on Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:24 pm

jonyb4 wrote:( btw my last name is also bennett :P )

:D :lol:

jonyb4 wrote:but when you have in the diagram a line eg -3-

what do i need to do with them exsactly? you will have to be gentle as im easily confused with this

just bridge that relevent wire and connect to the pin on the si plug you have specified?

Yeah, I would cut the engine wires mentioned at the si multiplug (leave the rest for now) then label and extend them to reach the fuse box.

jonyb4 wrote:and things like earth and rev counter, do i just run a wire to my rev counter, or my rev counter signal (heater frequency bk/wh wire) and earth just use a earth point?

Earth is just an earth point yes, and the rev counter wire you can either run to your gauge or pick it up from were the current ecu is, depends how much of it you are cutting out.

jonyb4 wrote:and how do you mean by the correct side of the relays?

oh will this all run on the mk4 ecu and si loom with 1.8 as a pair?

Correct side of the relay means you need to locate which pin on it controls the fuel pump turning on. Find the relay first, turn the ignition on and off and touch each relay to feel if they click whilst you do it. It will be one of the brown ones. If you pull the relay out the 2 smaller contacts are the coil so locate the one which goes to 12v when you turn the ignition on and the other small one is where (3) needs connecting.

The fuses are easy, you pull the fuse out and check with side goes live and put the feed on the other side.

What do you mean by running them as a pair?
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby dangerousdave on Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:51 pm

the drawing above has the pins numbers on the relays mate so its a simple case of making a small subloom with a fuse or 2 and 2 relays then once thas done ether with spades on the relays or made in the relay box or soldered and heat shrunk then connect the remaining wires up leaving your box un molested so it can be changed back easy enough and less things to check if it doesnt dtart first turn of the key! :)
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:26 pm

umm well i wired the wires for the relays where they come out of the ecu plug, for eg pin 80 was the bk/bu wire to the fuel pump relay, is this right?

fr the fuse ones i took the fuse box apart to see under where the fuses wiring, foudn the fuse and tapped into the wire coming out of it, using the manual wiring diagram to tell what coloured wire it was

we will soon find out, only one more job till the till the engines is ready to go in


i will be running two ecu's right? mk4 one for loom and 1.8 one for engine
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:51 pm

im so confused, andy/a3wk has told me to use MB's suggestion and run two ecu's at once

ive wired it up as i believe the wiring diagram has told me to (feed 80 on the ecu plug wasnt there, so had to make it)

im confused to how the tweo ecu idea works? or has someone got theyre wires crossed? :-? :-?


dangerous, what relays would i have to use? can you be more specific?
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:40 am

heres everything i done today

stripped the tape off the main ecu plug wiring, following the guide by MB i tapped into the relevent wires
pin 55 orange/yellow wire (6)
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there was no 80 on my plug so i made one, black/blue wire (3)
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then into the aux fuse box, and seperated the wires from underneath the fuses
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Fuse 28 ecu violet/blue wire (8 sensor live)
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Fuse 27 violet/yellow wire (5 Lambda live)
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Diode violet/blue wire (4 Ignition coil)
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the five new wires
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making more wires for the plug to connect to the si loom (saves me cutting it up)
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connected these up (also made the rev counter feed, earth and temp gauge feed)
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Done, ready to plug into the si loom,
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so this should work? and i will be using two ecu's the mk4 one and the 1.8 one

jon
Last edited by jonyb4 on Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby MB7201 on Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:49 am

You missunderstood a bit there. You don't need the 1.3 ecu/ loom. That was just to show how the current feeds are in relation to the 1.3 ecu so you can plug the new loom in its place. The fuel pump relay feed you can get just from the fuse box if you do the test I said above to locate where to tap into it.

Also to get it running you need to get the pats wires in and swap some pins on the ecu, but get this bit sorted first
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:52 am

i couldnt be more confused

i was told by andy to use the two looms, what exsactly do i have to do? i just cant follow you :-? :(
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby MB7201 on Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:40 am

Well you need to keep the loom if its tied up with the other electricals, but you don't need the stuff relating to the old managment (ie. all the wires from the ecu to the engine sensors). You can cut that all out if you want.

Whats you've done is alright but i'm saying rely more on finding stuff from the fusebox than ecu pin diagrams incase ford has moved pins etc. An example is you have no pin 80 which the diagram says you must have. You don't need to put in a pin 80 on the old ecu plug as you don't need it.

Have you located the pump relay? If you've already done the fuses then thats all you need to do
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:01 am

right, so my pin 80, should be located on the relay instead? just to be sure?

do i plug the 1.3 (old) ecu in when its to be running? are things like headlights running off it?

also no i aint found the pump relay yet, you said its one of the brown ones? which connector am i to connect the wire to?

does it "tick" when i turn the ignition on then? and that will ID it?
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby dangerousdave on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:28 am

if you wire the spare multi plug up to the diagram above you just plug the 1.8 ecu into the place your 1.3 once was, so bin the 1.3 one along with the engine loom now (from the ecu plu forward, proving its only conected to sensors!) so not to be confused! lol

you electics are controlled ny switches and relays not youe ecu so you will be fine with them :)

the relays we used were the fuel pump and fuel inj relay from the fiesta we stripped was a small square red one and a yellow one iirc and had the pinouts and numbers the same, just go and rip a ford apart you will find them mate :)

if you get stuck pm me :) like i said me and richie baby from here had a ft running in his mk4 cabby in only a few hours doing it this way! :)
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby MB7201 on Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:42 am

Yeah as above, ignore the 1.3 loom is there. The ecu just controls the engine, exactly the same thing as the 1.8 ecu does.

MB7201 wrote: If you pull the relay out the 2 smaller contacts are the coil so locate the one which goes to 12v when you turn the ignition on and the other small one is where (3) needs connecting.


Pin 80 if it was there should have gone to the relay and thats the line you need to connect the si loom to. As that pin isn't there you can't trust the ecu pin numbers in the haynes manual so you need to go straight for the relay.

If your still have the 1.3 loom intact then if you turn the ignition on it should click and then then click again a few seconds later once the pump is primed. Otherwise you have to check the above with a multimeter. You could also try and follow fuse 28 and see which relay thats goes to.
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:30 pm

ok mate cheers ill have a crack with that
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby scouse-sambo on Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:57 am

I think dangerousdave's idea would be the easiest mate.. good on you for tryin it though, one look at wires and my head is cabbaged :lol:

I hope it all works mate sounds like you may have forced a few premature grey hairs out in the process though :o :P
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:35 am

haha cheers mate

i aint a clue which to do, the MB lads idea is almost wired up as he said :-?
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:53 am

MB7201 wrote:
Also to get it running you need to get the pats wires in and swap some pins on the ecu, but get this bit sorted first


can you go into more detail on this please mate? as even with this last alteration (wire 3) i wont know if its worked till i sort the pats out

cheers mate, ill do the relay part tomorrow :Q *click click*
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby MB7201 on Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:33 am

Theres a guide here for doing the escort to mondeo 2.0 which should be opposite to the pin swaps you need to do.

http://ford-force.forumotion.com/tech-g ... ck-t44.htm

E.g. if it says remove pin 1 and put into pin 2 you need to remove pin 2 and put into pin 1. Label all the wires as you take them out incase theres somthing wrong.
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:08 am

ok i thought id revive this thread instead of making a new one lol


basicly now the problem is the fuel pump relay isnt wired right, unless anytone can think of how to wire it right?

can i just mak emy own pump relay loom up?

Dave what relay did you recommend to use in that subloom diagram you put up?, surely if i wired like that (but without the rest of the loom as i dont need that), it will work the pump?

at the moment it seems the fuel pump is connected to the starter motor or something?! :-?

Can anyone help, this car is almost running properly!
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:10 am

OR better still, cant i just use my exsisting pump relay, and wire it as you have suggested?
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby jonyb4 on Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:31 am

right after having ponder with your wiring diagram dave, ive realsied that its not a specific relay i need, its just a relay with them pin numbers, theyre a universal relay ;) (aint i clever working that out on my own :P )

i used one to run my fog lights i now realise, i have found one on ebay for £3.10: Here it is

but to save time i can get one from Maplins, think theyre a similar price, but without the delievery charge :P

so if i run a wire to the relay and follow your little diagram, with the earth on pin 85, do i just earth it where it suits me? as your RST plug had it go to pin 2, but on the zetec thats the rev counter signal, so im guessing i ignore that part?

also i should wire pin pin 86 to the "pump on" (3) on the Si loom plug? as this is when the ecu will tell the relay to activate the pump?

lol i hope this is right as ive worked all this out on my own, ME with electrics on a car, i should get the nobel price if it works :lol: :Q

Got the info from here in that ebay page


Relay Fitting Info:

Each pin is numbered, 85, 86, 87 and 30.

30 is the power, 87 and 87a (5 pin only, for 4 pin splice on to 87) are power out, eg to horns, spotlamps, etc., 86* is power to switch, 85* is earth *(85 and 86 power the relay coil and there is a diode between the two to ensure the current flows one way)

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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby aliowen on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:47 pm

Hi
Wonder if you can help me, I'm doing a escort mk4 conversion too a 1.8 zetec c. I've almost done all the conversion but when it came too doing the wiring I brought a Haynes manual for the car that I got the engine out of . Unfortunately the wiring diagram doesn't cover the donor car's ecu. I've been trolling the net for a diagram and I came across the wiring diagram you posted on here. It looks like the one I need , but I'm not sure due to quality of picture. Could you tell what Haynes manual it is out of or even better could you email me the pic (like you said you could)
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby MB7201 on Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:04 pm

What doner car is it from? The easy way is pre-pats and you can use a fiesta si loom which doesn't need a huge amount of wiring. If it has pats then you also need to wire the transponder system and have the key for the car.
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby aliowen on Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:37 pm

The donor car is is a 1995 1.8 escort ghia, I brought the full car so I had all the bits (which was 1 of my better ideas). The car has pats but i also have the key, which if I'm right you can just tape too the transponder. the car that I'm putting it in too is a 1990 xr3i. I know the this is a fietsa site but again if I'm right most of the wiring and mechanical parts are the same. The Haynes manual I have shows a wiring loom for the mk5 escort but on closer inspection the diagram is not the right 1 for the the donor car. It's just that i saw the wiring diagram that you posted (Haynes manual) and it looks similar to be may the one that I need, but like I said the quality of the post is not good enough for me to make out. If you could point me in the right direction it would be well appreciated. All the mechanical bit is done, its just finding the right diagram so the I can wire the loom in
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby MB7201 on Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:05 pm

That wiring diagram is no good as it is for an eec-v and the pins change for the ecu types. Pm me your email and the ecu code and I can send you a diagram that should fit the ecu, but you will still have to trace wires and plumb it into your exising loom.
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Re: 1.8 zetec into mk4 1.3 hcs wiring help!

Postby aliowen on Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:26 pm

ok cheers m8, will do tomorrow :)
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